tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post4430494342531322146..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: Pistol-Packing Positivists: Our Enemy in BlueWilliam N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-74963852822974893752013-03-31T19:00:58.755-06:002013-03-31T19:00:58.755-06:00You cop and ex-cop posters need to get honest. You...You cop and ex-cop posters need to get honest. You know better than most what really goes on, and it is about as evil as it gets. Shame on you liars. And, as for me, I can no longer say "God Bless America" as I did in my youth because (1) I grew up into an atheist and (2) America is gone. Sorry to break it to you...Erik Jayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06175269959257267891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-53381306245910070882010-05-06T19:32:59.773-06:002010-05-06T19:32:59.773-06:00This cop should be executed, plain and simple, pie...This cop should be executed, plain and simple, piece of fuckin shit, if that was my family on the side of the road, and I saw that happened to my father for no reason, so help me god that pig would die by my bare fucking hands. And they wonder why people get happy when this shit gets murdered in the line of duty, I get happy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-87020455174052260162008-09-24T22:15:00.000-06:002008-09-24T22:15:00.000-06:00What color is the sky in your little world?The "bu...What color is the sky in your little world?<BR/><BR/>The "bully," from your perspective, was the <I>unarmed</I> guy in this incident?<BR/><BR/>Nothing about the officer's conduct, beyond issuing his little extortion note, constituted "lawful" behavior. Those of us whose minds are not hostage to positivist assumptions understand that it's simply not the case that every petulant demand that issues from a tax-feeder's cakehole is a "lawful command."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Massey wasn't required by Utah law to sign or even to take the ticket, which could have been mailed to him. Gardner should have handed the ticket and moved his tax-fed ass along in search of his next victim. <BR/><BR/>Instead, Gardner needlessly escalated the situation to the point of assaulting Massey with a deadly weapon, and threatening to do the same to his wife.<BR/><BR/>Ah, but Gardner, you insist, was the victim, not the bully. <BR/><BR/>And in case you hadn't noticed, Massey <I>was</I> hurt. It's a "Taser," after all, not a "tickler."William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-20829314348980013402008-09-24T22:06:00.000-06:002008-09-24T22:06:00.000-06:00I'm absolutely speechless on this whole matter. It...I'm absolutely speechless on this whole matter. It is beyond my understanding as to why anyone would jack around an officer when being given a lawful command, then have the schizophrenic response of being surprised when they get tazered! Sign the ticket, be on your way fight it in court if you feel your right, but walking away while being told to "Stop"? WTF???<BR/>I can only imagine he was trolling for a quick settlement from the state. I have no sympathies for a bully who bites off more than he can chew. As an old coach once said to a mouthy high school linebacker "Don't let your alligator mouth overload your humming bird ass".<BR/>He's just lucky he did not get hurt.<BR/><BR/>Goss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-83124305954176454962008-02-11T12:29:00.000-07:002008-02-11T12:29:00.000-07:00There will be a time when this will get the office...There will be a time when this will get the officer(s) shot, and rightfully so, if law enforcement continues to act like this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-69523738200084680222007-12-13T03:09:00.000-07:002007-12-13T03:09:00.000-07:00He wasn't even breaking the speed limit. He was dr...He wasn't even breaking the speed limit. He was driving around 33 mph.<BR/><BR/>Watch the video. At the 13 second mark, he passes the 40 mph speed limit sign. At the 18 second mark, his car's shadow has passed 6 dashed lines.<BR/><BR/>Dashed lines are 10 feet long with 30 feet in between them. So it's 40 feet for each dashed line his shadow passes.<BR/><BR/>In 5 seconds, he passed 6 of them, which means he traveled 240 feet in 5 seconds or 48 ft/sec.<BR/><BR/>This is equivalent to a speed of 32.7 mph. All of the evidence is there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-41445244737487427192007-12-09T17:54:00.000-07:002007-12-09T17:54:00.000-07:00"Braveheart" said, "If I made the judgments agains..."Braveheart" said, <BR/>"If I made the judgments against a racial or ethnic group that so many of you do against police officers you would call me a racist who judges the entire group based on the behavior of a minority of individuals within the group."<BR/><BR/>The BIG difference, Braveheart, is no one CHOOSES their race (or gender), so prejuidice against them for what thay cannot change is bad. However, an individual such as yourself, chooses whether or not to become a cop. You CHOSE to be part of a profession where the state does tyranny to many citizens, many average ones, too. So even if you are one of the "good ones", it's understandable that many people wouldn't trust you, especially if they don't know you. I could be part of the mafia, and be one of the people that doesn't kill anyone. However, if I upheld the values of that organization, I would be subject to honest criticism. You could leave the pig force, and more people would like you and trust you. I don't want you to "risk your life" for me! I don't even consider such people to be a hero! I would protect myself, Thank you very much! There was NO police force in the USA or anywhere in 1800, when it was still a FREE country...Read your constitution, Braveheart...I read my history books. People weren't more immoral in 1800, 1600 than they are now.<BR/>Sorry. My advice is look after YOURSELF. If you REALLY oppose the growing police state in this country, good. Congratulations.....Now go do the RIGHT thing. with your time, become a wheat and corn farmer. Feed the world...BYe byeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-19139696367049352762007-12-04T22:51:00.000-07:002007-12-04T22:51:00.000-07:00Excellent discussion from all, except from the ber...Excellent discussion from all, except from the beribboned madam who so coyly averred: "I am an officer of the law to be respected. It is perfectly legitimate to blow away any jerk that attempts to pose a threat to us. Not only that, but it is a duty to unload a magazine into the gut of any perp." Hey girlfriend, I think I know your problem - do you ever get to unload your gonads into the gut of your wife? Or daughter, maybe? (We all know about your kind.) You should give it a try sometime - it will do wonders to ease your frustrations.<BR/><BR/>(Or perhaps his problem is that his Daddy got the two holes mixed up one dark night, and he is the unfortunate result.)<BR/><BR/>Only one other person seems to have noticed that the cop tasered the motorist right on the edge of the road, at which time he fell across the curb and into the roadway. It is only by the grace of God that some truck did not come along and squash him like a pumpkin. But as we have concluded above, smarts are not the distinguishing mark of these uniformed simians.<BR/><BR/>And yes, it is not just the cops but our whole society that is hyper-violent. Except for 9/11, it has been 142 years since we saw any real violence on our soil, and 1860-1865 was an archaic war, not fought with modern engineering tools. So we Americans worship violence as a primary social tool. 26,000 of us are killed by handguns every year, and the cops are responsible for only a minute fraction of that. (But too, they are supposed to be paid to stop it, not to add to it.) The Europeans have seen violence and war much closer and more recently - try to imagine 9/11 times twenty million - and they are reluctant to use violence. For them it is a last resort, for us here in America The Beautiful it is the first thing we do, before we even try to talk with each other.<BR/><BR/>Mr. Grigg, I hope your wife is doing well. Our prayers are with you both.<BR/><BR/>Chris Taylor<BR/>Arlington, VAChrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-32204850328031897872007-12-04T17:45:00.000-07:002007-12-04T17:45:00.000-07:00Though I like most of your post, try not to give p...Though I like most of your post, try not to give positivism a bad reputation, since it hasn't really been theorized in the way you describe since the work of <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Austin_%28legal_philosophy%29" REL="nofollow">John Austin</A> had its day in the sun. And most positivists nowadays hold that the phrase "[l]aw surely is not the gunman situation writ large, and legal order is surely not to be thus simply identified with compulsion" tidily refuted Austin's views on that matter.<BR/><BR/>See, e.g., wikipedia's entry on <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_positivism#Law_and_ethics" REL="nofollow">legal positivism</A> for more information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-88252195166507132672007-11-28T00:11:00.000-07:002007-11-28T00:11:00.000-07:00This idea that cops who make a traffic stop are in...This idea that cops who make a traffic stop are in danger and have to take this sort of line is total nonsense. First, if it is so dangerous why does this form of revenue collection for government exist? If it's so dangerous to be an armed tax collector extracting tribute on the side of the road, find another line of work (maybe a productive one for a change?). Secondly, the beyond the stop nonsense where criminals who are still living at their last known address are left to run free until they get pulled over? If they have warrants, do the job with the warrants and not bother road users. <BR/><BR/>Of course the entire point is an end run around the Bill of Rights. That and revenue is why the speed limit is usually well below the actual speed of traffic in much of the nation. Although in recent years that old end run is obsolete with outright papers checking now.Brent Pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-51354788198786918922007-11-28T00:05:00.000-07:002007-11-28T00:05:00.000-07:00out-bloody-ragious!!! And I imagine this kind of t...out-bloody-ragious!!! And I imagine this kind of treatment happens every single day and no-ones films it..consequently no one believes the citizen...God help usAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-35336523299371450862007-11-27T23:46:00.000-07:002007-11-27T23:46:00.000-07:00This isn't just a problem with police, much as fol...This isn't just a problem with police, much as folks would like to think so, but a greater reflection on our society as a whole. How can we plant this firmly on "Police" when we have parents beating each other to death at their kid's hockey games.<BR/><BR/>The escalation in violence and inappropriate behavior is everywhere, not just among the police departments of America.<BR/><BR/>Someone mentioned Las Vegas Metro. With only one exception, EVERY member of Metro that I ever dealt with were polite and professional. The one who wasn't straight-lined an S-curve and drove head-on into a buddy of mine riding his motorcycle. That officer was doing 90 in a 35 when he crossed the center line.<BR/><BR/>http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1999/Jul-20-Tue-1999/news/11591495.html<BR/><BR/>That one man is not enough to condemn the entire force though. The fact that he REMAINED on the force is enough to condemn the leadership of the force.<BR/><BR/>The majority of police I've encountered are nice, professional people. You could almost compare them to any religious group. 99% of them are great people, but the 1% that you hear about? That is where the problem really is.Ceronomuswww.cdbaby.com/cd/marooned/from/mbardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-65314407207902791392007-11-27T22:14:00.000-07:002007-11-27T22:14:00.000-07:00Excellent presentation of what is wrong with our s...Excellent presentation of what is wrong with our society!!! Too many are so apathetic that they want to leave the ruling of our society to the so -called government. To many of those that are supposed to "protect" us are on just such a power trip of their own that "society " is the last ones on their minds. The use of the taser is in need of much revue. It has killed so many innocent people at the hands of so called"professionals" that are actually very uniformed of the potential deadly ramifications such actions can have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-13520766262840139122007-11-27T20:33:00.000-07:002007-11-27T20:33:00.000-07:00the driver did nothing illegal. the police office...the driver did nothing illegal. the police office did shoot him in the back.<BR/><BR/>As an aside, I have my own story to tell. <BR/><BR/>I live in Toronto, Canada, and since the summer 2007, the parking ticket police have started to issue parking fines to legally parked cars that still have a few minutes remaining on their parking passes, which amounts to a $30 fine (the claim on the ticket is that no money was deposited into the parking meter, or the parking pass has expired).<BR/><BR/>Although this is illegal and unethical, the reasoning behind this is that these officers have a quota to fill and that the fine amount is to low for the majority of folks to take it to court, so most end up paying the fine (include myself).<BR/><BR/>How do the police get away with this? Simple - the officer sets the clock forward by about 10 minutes on his or her electronic ticketing machine, as compared to the actual parking meters that print the parking passes. Hence, they can issue you a "legal" ticket that shows that your ticket expired 3-5 minutes ago (this is the "actual" time printed on the fine they issue you), even though your valid parking pass is still valid for another 10 minutes. (btw - whatever happened to a 5-minute "grace period")<BR/><BR/>This has personally happened to me 3 times. The last time i actually showed up early and confronted the officer and showed him that I still had 3 minutes left on my parking pass (I showed him the parking meter machine time), but he still issued me a fine saying I had an expired parking pass that expired 6 minutes ago, and to take it to court if I really wanted my money back.<BR/><BR/>My experience with the legal system has been that it is very bureaucratic and "they" make it very difficult and inconvenient to actually take it to court. <BR/><BR/>Long line-ups and 10am-4pm government hours make it difficult to book a court hearing. Then, even if you make it to court, the actual "time" is in dispute, and the judge always takes the side of the police anyways. So its a loosing battle even if you get a hearing.<BR/><BR/>Life really sucks when this is what police stoop too in order to generate revenue for the city. There are no more morals or integrity in the legal system. Period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-48369411863161024522007-11-27T19:20:00.000-07:002007-11-27T19:20:00.000-07:00Please read Stanly Milgram's "Obedience to Authori...Please read Stanly Milgram's "Obedience to Authority"<BR/>A black and white study of our tendency to submit to authority and to "go along" with actions that we know to be immoral or even against our ingrained tendencies. Case in point is the many average people involved in the annihilation of the targeted peoples during the Nazi Regime. They were witting accomplices to an act that went against every bone in their bodies. Let's learn to stop this in it's tracks before half of us are arresting and gassing the other half of us, because "somebody told us to"!Dutchhttp://www.youtube.com/user/Kucinich2008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-23687287556472991592007-11-27T19:06:00.000-07:002007-11-27T19:06:00.000-07:00Assuming that you're telling the truth, you are no...Assuming that you're telling the truth, you are no more entitled to respect than any other cretinous thug. <BR/><BR/>Your costume jewelry does nothing to elevate you above the rest of us, and your pathological need for power over other human beings makes you the moral inferior of those of us who choose not to live by force or fraud. <BR/><BR/>You're also badly in need of a hands-on attitude correction before you end up injuring or killing an innocent person.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-73908726817196313202007-11-27T18:09:00.000-07:002007-11-27T18:09:00.000-07:00I am an officer of the law to be respected. It is...I am an officer of the law to be respected. It is perfectly legitimate to blow away any jerk that attempts to pose a threat to us. Not onlt that, but it is a duty to unload a magazine into the gut of any perp. Dont want to get shot ? Then play by the rules.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-39758298874662883002007-11-27T17:14:00.000-07:002007-11-27T17:14:00.000-07:00it never fails -- total thug behavior and someone ...it never fails -- total thug behavior and someone will stand up for it. ANY justification for the cop to go off, if the citizen does ANYTHING wrong, then it's open season. Jesus. Yeah, the citizen made a few errors -- minor errors, errors that don't require a tasering. Do you really think that any police academy in the world would show this video as a righteous way to treat the public? Yet, there will always be people on these forums who will go into contorted arguments to discuss why someone had it coming to them. Anything below the bar of "yes officer, no officer" means a beating apparently. The fact that it's starting to happen to white people now, sadly, will finally wake up the populace ... and as for someone wondering why good cops don't tell on bad cops -- they rationalize it. They tell themselves it wasn't that bad, they forget it like it never happened, because they are in a dangerous brotherhood and if you don't protect the back, front and side of the guy you are with on the street it could be Serpico time for you. Cops hate cop snitches. Nothing to gain, and everything to lose. So, again, you rationalize it. I saw it from cop on some other forum "Why should I rat out my man who protects my life for not dotting his Tees and crossing his Eyes" ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-31372087214023650662007-11-27T17:09:00.000-07:002007-11-27T17:09:00.000-07:00Anonymous @ 3:17 -- To quote a worthy source, a li...Anonymous @ 3:17 -- To quote a worthy source, a lie is a poor way to say hello. <BR/><BR/>With the exception of spam and the occasional blasphemy, I've never moderated a comment out of existence. And since I've got no way of knowing who you are, cowering as you do behind the cloak of anonymity, I can't tell if your previous contributions consisted of one of the foregoing. <BR/><BR/>Your comment that Mr. Massey and his wife are "lucky" -- to be alive, one assumes -- tends to validate the opening comment of my blog. It also underscores a reality Anonymous @3:41 doesn't appreciate: In encounters between citizens and police, it is the former, not the latter, that has the more plausible cause for concern about the possibility of lethal violence. <BR/><BR/><I>I don't know how many times cops turn up dead because of "demands" by so-called innocents.</I><BR/><BR/>This is literally true, since you appear to believe the romanticized notion that police work is typically fraught with danger. It isn't. <BR/><BR/>As I document in the essay currently at the top of my blog, loggers, miners, truck drivers, and other producers of wealth and value have far more dangerous jobs than policemen or others who consume wealth through taxation.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-49517339805398437742007-11-27T16:41:00.000-07:002007-11-27T16:41:00.000-07:00Extremism is a wonderful thing. Personally, I thi...Extremism is a wonderful thing. Personally, I think both of these guys were in the wrong. The officer over-zealous and the citizen not capable of understanding the reality of the situation or his rights. But I won't get in to any of that. The only thing I want to say is that we forget that everytime an officer pulls someone over, the first thing that runs through their mind is whether or not the person their pulling them over is going to attempt to kill them. It taints everything they do. It's impossible for them not to think that way. As they approach a vehicle they are in a very vulnerable position. That does not mean that they have the right to be rude or not answer questions, a good officer can balance those issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-66330719622788922652007-11-27T16:17:00.000-07:002007-11-27T16:17:00.000-07:00He asked him to hop on out of the car and put his ...He asked him to hop on out of the car and put his hands behind his back. He didn't do it.<BR/><BR/>He advanced on the officer or towards the officer.<BR/><BR/>He had his left hand in his pocket or out of site.<BR/><BR/>He again refused to comply.<BR/><BR/>He's LUCKY it was a taser. His wife is lucky it was a taser. You sign the ticket and talk about it later. Ya' wanna' be a dick? Go tell it to a judge.<BR/><BR/>I don't know how many times cops turn up dead because of "demands" by so-called innocents.<BR/><BR/>Go ahead and moderate this one out of existence too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-3504050594456700532007-11-27T15:36:00.000-07:002007-11-27T15:36:00.000-07:00Assuming that you're taking about me, you may be r...Assuming that you're taking about me, you may be right -- but what's your point?William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-46050131399737772332007-11-27T15:16:00.000-07:002007-11-27T15:16:00.000-07:00You're an idiot.You're an idiot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-6090971141878684192007-11-27T15:07:00.000-07:002007-11-27T15:07:00.000-07:00That is Bullshit! I usually give the benefit of th...That is Bullshit! I usually give the benefit of the doubt to the officer, (like in the case of "don't taze me bro" I think the officers had a right to taze that guy) but in this case it is absolutely unforgivable! The guy that got tazed should be a very rich man after he's done suing the police dept. And maybe everyone in that dept needs to be cleaned out as that kind of police attitude comes from the top down. He invited him out of the car specifically to taze him,unimaginable!jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-31836581738237243582007-11-27T15:02:00.000-07:002007-11-27T15:02:00.000-07:00It seems to me that if a police officer goes outsi...It seems to me that if a police officer goes outside the law or department regulations when using a any kind of a weapon, he or she is committing a crime. A person in uniform is no more or less likely to commit a crime than anyone else. Therefore, since Tazers look to the average citizen like guns, if an officer pulls a Tazer and points it unlawfully at a person, that person or anyone nearby, believing a life is in dander, may legally act in defense of life and limb by any means necessary. If this were not true, then if we actually did witness a police officer about to murder someone, we would be required by law to simply stand by and do nothing. The brandishing of anything that looks like a gun, if brandished without proper cause, can give a citizen the right to defend him or herself by any means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com