tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post2320524563472387521..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: The Crandon Massacre (UPDATED)William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-85786153000149703782007-10-10T21:40:00.000-06:002007-10-10T21:40:00.000-06:00"I remember this from when I was about the age of ..."I remember this from when I was about the age of Tyler Peterson:<BR/><BR/>I worked out at a Dojo with a guy who wanted to become a police officer. I asked him why that was to be his chosen profession and he answered that he wanted to look someone in the eyes and shoot them with a 357 Magnum.<BR/>Most of the other guys who became cops were just plain outcasts who were picked on for being so weird."<BR/><BR/><BR/>I call bullshit on that. Yes, there will occasionally be some jackass that wants to be a cop like described above. Claiming most of the the cops is painting with a way to wide brush. Most cops are no different from anyone else. The local and state departments that encourage the us against them attitude is the problem.buzznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-37859271433143280102007-10-10T11:44:00.000-06:002007-10-10T11:44:00.000-06:00I remember this from when I was about the age of T...I remember this from when I was about the age of Tyler Peterson:<BR/><BR/>I worked out at a Dojo with a guy who wanted to become a police officer. I asked him why that was to be his chosen profession and he answered that he wanted to look someone in the eyes and shoot them with a 357 Magnum.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Most of the other guys who became cops were just plain outcasts who were picked on for being so weird.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I guess little has changed.Nednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-27134965907975945522007-10-10T08:27:00.000-06:002007-10-10T08:27:00.000-06:00Will,The following, from Wikipedia, is relevant to...Will,<BR/><BR/>The following, from Wikipedia, is relevant to the point that police and other agents of the state cannot be trusted with a monopoly on gun ownership (emphasis mine):<BR/><BR/>"Woo Bum-kon (February 24, 1955 – April 27, 1982) was a Korean <B>police officer</B> who carried out the <B>largest known incident of spree killing in modern history</B>. After it was over 58 people (including himself) were dead, and 35 wounded in Gyeongsangnam-do, South Korea.<BR/><BR/>"... Walking from house to house, he abused his position as a police officer to make people feel safe and gain entry into their homes. Then he shot the victims, or killed the entire family with a grenade. He continued this pattern for a full eight hours.<BR/><BR/>"Once Woo had shot a certain number of people in a village, he would run to another nearby village to continue the massacre. In the early hours of April 27, after rampaging through five villages in Uiryeong county, Woo took his final two grenades and strapped them to his body. He took three people hostage and set the grenades' fuses, killing both himself and his final victims."<BR/><BR/>— R. BrazilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-23880889339671522792007-10-09T18:40:00.000-06:002007-10-09T18:40:00.000-06:00The reason people can't self-govern these days is ...<I>The reason people can't self-govern these days is because they don't have to. You want to talk about relativism, look at the environment the State has created for people.</I><BR/><BR/>Do you act or behave solely on the basis of merely what you're "permitted to do or not" or do you act or not act based on what's right (or what you thought was right to the best of your God-given discernment)? If you simply function in life only on "what's permitted or not" you also might want to review what true self-government is all about.<BR/><BR/>Here is a truism in life: Just because one CAN, doesn't mean one WILL. What usually determines whether that is true or not with a given individual is if they have a true sense of morality, or not, that guides their decision-making process, regardless of whether they're merely a peon or a top dog in some capacity.<BR/><BR/><I>Take the State away, and people will have to conform to reality (ie, learn to self-govern) pretty damn quick. And they would, too.</I><BR/><BR/>What makes you think a thief/freeloader will "auto-repent" and suddenly, out of the blue, do the "right thing" when one source or sources of loot disappears? He/she will simply get it another way from those same sources, or elsewhere; you take the government proxy out of it, the only difference is that they will have to actually "work" to get the loot rather than getting it by proxy as it's done now. IOW, they'll likely just steal it themselves from the producers. This is one reason I said some form of societal upheaval would result. And this is also why any and all gun bans would have to be repealed or ignored.<BR/><BR/>You're making the mistake that humans operate logically. We really are quite illogical and you're failing to take human nature into account as well. If government is taken out, the freeloader will <I>still want to freeload</I> by any means available, the easier the better. After all, stealing another's wealth is still a lot easier than actually working every day 9-5 for some honest change.<BR/><BR/>Sure, some will straighten up, but most will find other means and methods to steal to obtain their ill-gotten gains.<BR/> <BR/><I>Your argument, if extended to other areas of intervention, would yield statements such as this, concerning welfare, for instance: "I think that some people have become so unproductive and dependent that in a way welfare is all that is keeping them alive, and that if you took that away they'd just die. Ironic, yes, but that's how it seems."</I><BR/><BR/><I>Now do you really think people would just die if they didn't have the State's teet to suckle on any longer?</I><BR/><BR/>Please, see above. This is nonsense. I've never said a freeloader just sits there.<BR/><BR/><I>And even if you think that's true, does that suddenly justify the fact that the teet they are suckling is fed with stolen wealth?</I><BR/><BR/>Of course not. I can't recall that I ever claimed that it is/was. I don't know how long you've followed Will's blog and the comment threads, but I've spoken about the scourge of welfare, in ALL its varieties including the richies feeding at the trough as well as the worn out and tired cliché that the poor do it, many times in different contexts.<BR/><BR/><I>Desocializing is no doubt going to be a tough operation whenever and however it occurs, but given the alternative (what we have) things could be worse. I know it is tempting, but don't confuse the State and all it has done to promote the current situation for the "ironic" solution to the problem, not even in the short-run, because it's a short-run interventionist mindset that's bred this long-run disaster in the first place.</I><BR/><BR/>Government doesn't operate in a vacuum, taylor. We, the <I>people</I>, have contributed hugely to the shaping of this government. Government doesn't just magically morph into a police state over a population that has any significant real virtue. Elections would be shaped by the commoners collectively holding their representatives accountable when they stray. Read the story of David Crockett and the farmer in Tennessee. Of course, the representatives themselves have to have some residue virtue in their own souls as well. David Crockett certainly had that.dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-73281622978132878172007-10-09T10:07:00.000-06:002007-10-09T10:07:00.000-06:00Pistols useless? I'm confused. At a distance>25 ya...Pistols useless? I'm confused. At a distance>25 yards sure. Up close and personal, not as good as a shotgun obviously, but .357 magnums have taken down huge grizzly bears at 30 ft in one shot. Far from useless, methinks.Zacharyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05334525584242029389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-74155424174357836722007-10-09T09:21:00.000-06:002007-10-09T09:21:00.000-06:00If you view the police as if they were an occupyin...If you view the police as if they were an occupying force, and policians as plunderers of the wealth of our nations, their actions become all so clear. Their jobs, vis-a-vis the People's lives, is one of control, with the ultimate aim of property confiscation. In fact, <I>most</I> of these types of political issues would be far easier to understand if you'd just imagine that our government had been conquered and replaced by the Soviets sometime in the late 1970s, if not earlier. I've read that Socrates wrote "All wars are fought for money" and that Sun Tzu said "All war is deception." Since the raison d'etre of our modern socialist government has become the forced collection of money for redistribution, then we are at war. Understand that, and understand their actions.1957Humannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-77370286233657853822007-10-09T08:27:00.000-06:002007-10-09T08:27:00.000-06:00Taylor, I have seen that clip, which would be the ...Taylor, I have seen that clip, which would be the ideal entry in a video dictionary under the word "hubris"! <BR/><BR/>I'll say this: In terms of its ability to provoke derisive, incredulous laughter, that clip is a gift that just keeps on giving....William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-14439077999398788722007-10-09T08:12:00.000-06:002007-10-09T08:12:00.000-06:00Dixiedog,Don't confuse the destabilizer (the State...Dixiedog,<BR/><BR/>Don't confuse the destabilizer (the State) for the emergency stabilizer.<BR/><BR/>The reason people can't self-govern these days is because they don't have to. You want to talk about relativism, look at the environment the State has created for people.<BR/><BR/>Take the State away, and people will have to conform to reality (ie, learn to self-govern) pretty damn quick. And they would, too.<BR/><BR/>Your argument, if extended to other areas of intervention, would yield statements such as this, concerning welfare, for instance: "I think that some people have become so unproductive and dependent that in a way welfare is all that is keeping them alive, and that if you took that away they'd just die. Ironic, yes, but that's how it seems."<BR/><BR/>Now do you really think people would just die if they didn't have the State's teet to suckle on any longer?<BR/><BR/>And even if you think that's true, does that suddenly justify the fact that the teet they are suckling is fed with stolen wealth?<BR/><BR/>Desocializing is no doubt going to be a tough operation whenever and however it occurs, but given the alternative (what we have) things could be worse. I know it is tempting, but don't confuse the State and all it has done to promote the current situation for the "ironic" solution to the problem, not even in the short-run, because it's a short-run interventionist mindset that's bred this long-run disaster in the first place.<BR/><BR/>My $.02 on that particular topic.TAYLORhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18270678440957992085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-44002979097618098102007-10-09T07:44:00.000-06:002007-10-09T07:44:00.000-06:00Sorry, in that video I linked to I said the assist...Sorry, in that video I linked to I said the assistant held up a shotgun... it looked like a rifle after I viewed the video again fullsize. On the normal, small size I couldn't see the contours and it looked shotgun-esque.TAYLORhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18270678440957992085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-88481150648578765682007-10-09T07:08:00.000-06:002007-10-09T07:08:00.000-06:00Here's an excerpt from a Miami Herald story on Joh...Here's an excerpt from a Miami Herald story on John Brooks. In the story Brooks is called one of Sheriff Ken Jenne's highest ranking deputies.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Officer says he's sorry for mocking victim: A Broward Sheriff's officer apologized for praising the rough treatment of protesters at a 2003 free-trade summit but will not face disciplinary action.<BR/><BR/>COPYRIGHT 2006 The Miami Herald <BR/><BR/>Byline: Ashley Fantz <BR/><BR/>Aug. 10--Maj. John Brooks, one of Broward Sheriff Ken Jenne's highest-ranking deputies, apologized Wednesday afternoon for derogatory comments he and other officers made in a police-training video following the November 2003 Free Trade Area of the Americas summit in Miami. <BR/><BR/>His apology came on the same day The Miami Herald published a front-page story about the BSO tape, which was picked up by local and national media. <BR/><BR/>The tape, recorded Nov. 21, 2003, shows Brooks and other deputies praising each other over shooting nonlethal rubber projectiles at protesters. They gleefully congratulated each other for shooting Elizabeth Ritter, a 45-year-old Coral Gables attorney, five times as she...<BR/><BR/>Update: That would be former Sheriff Ken Jenne. Wikipedia: Jenne resigned his position of Sheriff in September of 2007 after pleading guilty to federal tax evasion and mail fraud charges.<BR/> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_JenneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-19730967406002807762007-10-09T06:36:00.000-06:002007-10-09T06:36:00.000-06:00The sheriff officer interviewd by CNN in the YouTu...The sheriff officer interviewd by CNN in the YouTube video, John Brooks, was in the lead INS van that conducted the pre-dawn, day-before-Easter raid on the home where Elian Gonzalez was staying.<BR/><BR/>See the link below. <BR/><BR/>http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/elian/brooks2.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-11080265661485225932007-10-09T02:08:00.000-06:002007-10-09T02:08:00.000-06:00The good news - AR-15's are only .22s.Yeah, basica...<I>The good news - AR-15's are only .22s.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, basically. .223 to be exact. However, there's a world of difference between the AR15/M16 round and an ordinary .22 long-rifle round. The .223 is a heavier grained, pointed bullet with a longer casing and, naturally, much more propellant.<BR/><BR/>I've owned an AR15 (.223), MAC90 (7.62 x 39), Mosin-Nagant (7.62 x 54R), K-98 (8mm Mauser), and .303 Lee-Enfield and have shot all of them many times. I'll take a bolt-action any day for inflicting near certain lethality at a distance. The Mosin-Nagant and K-98 are my fav by far for long-distance accuracy.<BR/><BR/>I agree with fred about the reliability, or more like absolute stopping power, of boomsticks (with the right ammo) versus pistols or even rifles. And in close quarters, they're the best weapon to have on hand bar none. My riot boomstick provides more than adequate home protection, if ever called upon.dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-8119711269915307872007-10-09T01:53:00.000-06:002007-10-09T01:53:00.000-06:00What are some practical steps that we could take t...<I>What are some practical steps that we could take to disarm police officers?</I><BR/><BR/>Be careful with that kind of argument. This leads to the <I>same</I> baseless argument used by gun-control zealots about disarming civilians. Yes, there is a difference in that an armed State agent has the resources of Leviathan at his/her back, but the clever zealots will turn that argument on its ear and redirect it and the clueless among us will suck it in. Besides, there are no "practical" steps to disarm the police, as government will always have force of arms by default. Always has, always will.<BR/><BR/>The problem is cultural. With so many of the young today having grown up on Doom, Quake, GTA, and other extremely violent video games, becoming mind-numbed watching Hollyweird's debauchery and depravity on screen or at home as a couch potato daily, having experienced little to no parental interaction or otherwise responsible supervision growing up, inculcated with moral relativism, and so on, ad nauseam, it should be no surprise why we have police nowadays with a mindset molded thusly, with "power from on High," act like thugs.<BR/><BR/>That said, however, and to preempt the obviously expected retort, I'm NOT saying that we need to ban video games or anything else. Besides, many if not most of us have played them and most of us don't act out our digital persona in real life. I've played many violent video games, except for GTA since I personally think it's garbage, but that's just me. The series' popularity, however, obviously says most folk think otherwise. The same with movies, etc.<BR/><BR/>Nonetheless, for someone that's rudderless and/or of a weak constitution, violent first-person shooters, and especially games like GTA and it's offspring, can really feed such a mind in nefarious ways. Of course, video games and other entertainment are just merely a few of a myriad of potent and influential cultural ingredients that need to be of concern to anybody, but especially to parents of youngsters.<BR/><BR/><I>Why do we even need a police department at all? Seriously, if we wanted to interpose and nullify morally illegitimate authorities, could we, as city council members, or as county commissioners, vote to disband the local police department (which is now practically an arm of the federal government) and simply offer training and certification to civilian peacekeepers?</I><BR/><BR/>Of course, however that would require repeal of every gun ban and restriction. I know this will sound twisted and is even ironic in a way, given these events that Will documents in detail, but I'm beginning to think, given our cultural degeneration at large, that government itself actually, and inadvertently perhaps, acts as a restraint to some degree on an otherwise rudderless populace and preventing a societal breakdown. IOW, people who can no longer discern right from wrong without a LAW dictating it to them, i.e. one who cannot <I>self</I>-govern adequately (sigh!), the government literally provides that rudder for them, however corrupt it may be.<BR/><BR/>The reality is that there are MANY folk out here that were it not for the fear of consequences from government by violating an arbitrary LAW of government, they'd be perpetrating all sorts of unspeakable acts against people and property. Have you never asked anyone, "In your mind, what really is preventing you from doing [insert act or behavior here]?" The MANY answers I've heard to that question says volumes and goes something like this: "[laughing] Well, duh, because I don't want to go jail, you moron!" Hmm, again, the gun bans would all have to vanish and I do believe, by extension, the boiling cauldron we call society would boil over and break down, accordingly.<BR/><BR/>I know it sounds weird, granted, but I often think of things projecting out into the future, given what the current reality is. Like I said, it's ironic, probably the irony of all ironies in my mind. But it's how I see it.dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-44871374582615582112007-10-09T01:49:00.000-06:002007-10-09T01:49:00.000-06:00You've seen this classic, haven't you?taylor, I'd ...<I>You've seen this classic, haven't you?</I><BR/><BR/>taylor, I'd seen that linked from another blog some time ago. Even though ALL schools everywhere are "gun-free" zones, I'd further assert that the municipality where that school is located is likely also a gun-restricted zone.<BR/><BR/>The problem with this kind of propaganda display, reinforced ironically by the actions of this incompetent DEA agent in a classroom, is that these kiddies will grow into adulthood thinking GUNS are the scourge and not the thugs or the cretins of the State (this example) behind the GUN.<BR/><BR/>So, an episode like that only serves to help better mold the immature minds of the kiddies to loathe guns, since hey, an Authoritah figure even got injured by one of the weapons by his own hand. Sigh, yes, we, who are adults and who came along before the gun-control propaganda was this deeply embedded in the culture, know better. Today's kiddies, on the other hand, suck in this garbage propaganda and will likely be highly visible among the ones who push the HARDEST and STRONGEST for gun-control legislation after they reach adulthood.dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-10107941572288091102007-10-09T00:32:00.000-06:002007-10-09T00:32:00.000-06:00After he became an officer, it was a power trip to...After he became an officer, it was a power trip to him.”<BR/><BR/>Yes. A trip he couldn't handle. <BR/><BR/>I'm thinking he was intoxicated with power, yet still disturbed by things in his past. <BR/><BR/>Someone so young shouldn't be entrusted with authority.Fredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00447111416321992256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-86666517901275998542007-10-09T00:21:00.000-06:002007-10-09T00:21:00.000-06:00It's tempting to see the "Patrol Rifle" as some so...It's tempting to see the "Patrol Rifle" as some sort of unwelcome instrument possessing military characteristics. But the reality is police departments around the country have been trying for years to use the rifle as a secondary weapon rather than the old reliable shotgun. <BR/><BR/>Those who know guns know pistol ammo doesn't cut it when you need to stop someone. A shotgun will do it, but not always accurately and not at great distances. Something chambered in .223 will do some damage if damage is what you desire. And it will do it at distances a shotgun is incapable reaching.<BR/><BR/>The "patrol rifle" is replacing the shotgun because it's better. The pistol the cops have on their hip is nothing more than a convenient tool to use when they are in a pinch and within close range of a legitimate threat.<BR/><BR/>Pistol ammo sucks. I don't care what caliber you are shooting (this last line is for those who are thinking of responding that their .45 will blow people off their feet, stop a man dead in his tracks, etc. etc. etc.)<BR/><BR/>All of the above is submitted to contribute to the discussion on whether or not the coppers should have rifles. It is NOT intended to address issues of unqualified so-called men in uniforms using them when they are not justified in doing so.Fredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00447111416321992256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-12575821306053440882007-10-08T21:50:00.000-06:002007-10-08T21:50:00.000-06:00Not related, but interesting: http://www.bostonher...Not related, but interesting: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1035832#articleFullAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-1654201505081985542007-10-08T21:35:00.000-06:002007-10-08T21:35:00.000-06:00The good news - AR-15's are only .22s.The good news - AR-15's are only .22s.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-27858912090297896562007-10-08T21:21:00.000-06:002007-10-08T21:21:00.000-06:00"Enough already. We are in a police state. We got ...<I>"Enough already. We are in a police state. We got it. What can we do about it?"</I><BR/><BR/>We need to talk to our friends, co-workers, and family about these abuses of power. We need to get involved in local politics and let people know what is going on. We need more people becoming aware that we are all potential perps to the LEOs and they only answer to who pays them.<BR/><BR/>Present day law enforcement has become so corrupt that it attracts the people with the same mindset they accuse criminals of having. I used to trust police officers, <BR/><BR/>In the last 20 years or so (right about the time of the escalation of the War on Some Drugs, hmmm, coincidence?) I have grown to be very wary of any encounter with law enforcement for any reason, no matter how trivial. <BR/><BR/>It breaks my heart that the very country that I volunteered to protect, in my small way as a soldier, has become the very place that I saw on the other side of the wall, in East Germany, back in 1985.negatorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-85154057563172576362007-10-08T19:50:00.000-06:002007-10-08T19:50:00.000-06:00What are some practical steps that we could take t...What are some practical steps that we could take to disarm police officers? Why do we even need a police department at all? Seriously, if we wanted to interpose and nullify morally illegitimate authorities, could we, as city council members, or as county commissioners, vote to disband the local police department (which is now practically an arm of the federal government) and simply offer training and certification to civilian peacekeepers? <BR/><BR/>Enough already. We are in a police state. We got it. What can we do about it? Is there yet hope? If so, how do we proceed to remedy these things?Keithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14858190183366996406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-16564470079081917602007-10-08T19:45:00.000-06:002007-10-08T19:45:00.000-06:00Will,You've seen this classic, haven't you?Yes, th...Will,<BR/><BR/>You've seen <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU" REL="nofollow">this classic</A>, haven't you?<BR/><BR/>Yes, the man shot himself in the foot seconds after claiming he was the only one responsible enough to be carrying it in the first place, and a minute after claiming it was unloaded.<BR/><BR/>Notice the rational reaction of the children when his assistant holds a shotgun up for demonstration:<BR/><BR/>"Put that thing down [you ignorant brute]!"TAYLORhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18270678440957992085noreply@blogger.com