tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post1652761390776524282..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: If This is "Christian Patriotism"....William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-33699820869216637692016-09-20T12:42:04.012-06:002016-09-20T12:42:04.012-06:00You mean like the during the first three centuries...You mean like the during the first three centuries? or the spread of Christianity to nations of Ethiopia and Armenia or the minority Christian communities in India (from at least the third century), or in the Mongol Empire? Yes, the Spanish Empire and the British Empire did a lot, but Christianity did not just spread through empire building. Nor does it spread that way now. Explain to me just how that's happening in China? <br /><br />Try reading more about the history of Christianity instead of the popular junk. If you really want to attack Christianity, at least attack it on sound history and theology instead of modern secularist myths. You are only convincing to the ignorant. Libertashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03144020209802548920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-43701550698581867322012-09-27T06:17:16.808-06:002012-09-27T06:17:16.808-06:00willb....I will not die for my nations sins becaus...willb....I will not die for my nations sins because Jesus died for all of our sins on an individual basis. <br />My heart breaks because our nation sends our young men and women to war. It crushed my heart to see a young bride laying over her husbands flag draped coffin grieving. The grief is beyond explanation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-69009633141461854662012-09-26T06:54:09.035-06:002012-09-26T06:54:09.035-06:00"Christianity is always spread by warfare&quo..."Christianity is always spread by warfare" is the same straw man attack that has pervaded this country for the last decade, brought on by people like the ones who made this movie. The fact is that if someone is not acting in faith, hope, and above all else love, then they <i>are not acting in the name of Christianity</i> even if they say they are. The same can be applied to the Muslim extremists that the US created.Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-36341064687049069022012-09-22T13:57:35.629-06:002012-09-22T13:57:35.629-06:00Actually, Lemuel...He NEVER put the word "onl...Actually, Lemuel...He NEVER put the word "only" in that sentence! What He said is that those two things were (to put it mathematically) - <br />Necessary, but not Sufficient. They are, in other words, the place to start.<br /><br />See Matthew 5:17-19!<br /><br />He also said that - so long as heaven and earth still exist, and they still do! - not "one yod or tittle" - not the smallest part -- of His "instruction" ("torah" in the Hebrew) would pass. And He said, (John 14:15), "IF you love Me, keep My commands."<br /><br />The "church" has failed so miserably because it tries to teach that He "did away with" His own "law" (torah) -- when He said no such thing.Mark Callhttp://www.markniwot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-83986038983211283322012-09-21T22:42:26.083-06:002012-09-21T22:42:26.083-06:00Hi Liberranter,
Just revisited to see what's g...Hi Liberranter,<br />Just revisited to see what's going on - seems you are the only one of the old faithfuls still here. Will G. has not lost his touch, I see. As powerful as ever. Sorry to hear of your disillusionment with your last church. Keep looking - you may yet find one that is sincere enough to appeal to you. Sadly, you and evin above are both suffering from the perversion of the transcendent message of the Prince of Peace, which occurred at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. There, the Emperor Constantine demanded that the Christian Churches work out a canon of doctrine that would allow the Emperor to control the Christians in his Empire and bend them to his political will. The resulting "Christian" faith is only a shadow of the glorious and holy message of The Nazarene Jesus. Not to worry too much - be true to your heart and you will be walking in His Light. I hope you can find a community of faith that follows His true teaching, but I for one have never succeeded. I have ended up disappointed in every church I ever attended. I just go my own way - my pigrimage in this life is a matter only between me and God. Jesus Himself said that the only two commandments that matter are to love thy God and love thy neighbor as thyself. (He then gave the parable of the Good Samaritan to illustrate a good neighbor.) Follow those precepts, and everything else in Christ's message will fall into place.<br />Be well,<br />Lemuel Gulliver.Lemuel Gullivernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-1331691837664944542012-09-20T10:13:31.810-06:002012-09-20T10:13:31.810-06:00I recently, out of the blue, received a phone call...I recently, out of the blue, received a phone call from the pastor of the Baptist church that I attended for about six months before leaving after being unable to suffer their incessant state-worship. When he asked why I had left his church, I finally laid it on the line. While not the only motivation for leaving, I told him that his exhortations from the pulpit to take hold of the perverse misreading of Romans 13 were insufferable* and that his 9/11 10th Anniversary Commemoration Service last September, in particular, was the last straw and almost made me get up and walk out of church altogether. He seemed genuinely baffled that such a thing would upset me*, but having learned shortly before leaving his church that he was a Bob Jones "University" (HAH!) graduate does a great deal to explain this cluelessness. (His church's "Bible studies" consisting of reading best-selling books about the Bible rather than the Bible itself was the other key factor in my deciding to look for worship elsewhere. So far, it's been a fruitless search.)<br /><br />My point is that this sort of blindness on the part of the 501(c)(3) corporations masquerading as churches is institutional and unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. In fact, it will probably get much worse, with churches like those of my ex-pastor turning into nothing other than the <i>Reichsskirchen</i> of the Nazi era in Germany, where pastors' messages are essentially vetted by agents of the State. Any deviation from the warvangelical message will result in sanctions similar to those suffered by Reverend Waldron, probably to be shared by congregation members who echo them.<br /><br />The silver lining: we just might start seeing a re-emergence of the New Testament church; that is, persecuted groups of individuals who worship the Prince of Peace and the message contained in the Four Gospels rather than the State's superimposed Great National Religion perversion of it.<br /><br />(*I recommended Laurence Vance's <i>Christianity and War</i> to my former pastor and might just send him a copy - not that he'll read it or be influenced by its message.)liberranterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-71379026643817136012012-09-19T22:49:46.954-06:002012-09-19T22:49:46.954-06:00An interesting piece, Will, but there is another R...An interesting piece, Will, but there is another REALLY big irony that needs to be pointed out here:<br /><br />"If this is Xmas..."<br />then it's ultimately just as pagan as the other parts of the story are jingoistic.<br /><br />Certainly, Yahushua the Savior was NOT born on December 25th (the purported birthday of Sol Invictus Mithras, et al) or indeed anywhere close to it. He was born during the Biblical feast of Sukkot (aka "Tablernacles", or "Booths" - or even "Mangers" in the Olde English) as can be readily shown from Scripture. (As can the converse.)<br /><br />In fact, Scripture forbids combining the pagan with the set-apart ('holy') and celebrating His feasts in ways that He so clearly says are offensive to Him.<br /><br />But the irony is that you have a movie here which commits abomination AND distraction:<br /><br />Glorifying the Warfare State and the Licensed State Church that commits idolatry in His Name. And sadly, "Christians" today are as oblivious to His Word and His "Appointed Times" as they are the Constitution and Bill of Rights.Mark Callhttp://www.markniwot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-62584371185153086322012-09-19T16:19:36.400-06:002012-09-19T16:19:36.400-06:00"As a young man, Bob fought in the Vietnam Wa..."As a young man, Bob fought in the Vietnam War. He was proud to see his only son, Tom, enlist in the Army,"<br /><br />Generation after generation of morons.Bilejoneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15426920337506809987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-90291200567786161762012-09-19T16:07:49.081-06:002012-09-19T16:07:49.081-06:00Don't worry about it William. You articulated ...Don't worry about it William. You articulated your points profoundly so I encourage you to keep it up in this vein of topic and contrast. I found this through Revolution PAC...This makes some points I haven't seen ANYWHERE in 'christian' blogoworld and it really hits home... Keep it up brother.<br /><br />I think the fix now merits some sharing of the article on my part.Phil L.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-42465856477404308092012-09-19T14:37:58.775-06:002012-09-19T14:37:58.775-06:00Phil, I've added a transitional paragraph (rig...Phil, I've added a transitional paragraph (right next to the photo of Bob Revere on the rooftop) that should clear things up.<br /><br />Once again, I regret the unintended difficulty I've inflicted on my readers.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-19174754583011844702012-09-19T14:18:54.219-06:002012-09-19T14:18:54.219-06:00I really want to like this article but I'm rea...I really want to like this article but I'm really confused. Is the sanctuary status and the outcry against unconstitutional, orwellian doctrines frequently decried by liberty folk really something in the movie that epitomizes Bob's motivation?<br /><br />So is Bob vilified by his grandson in the end?<br /><br />Its just not reading right in spite of it being an excellent rebuttal of Christian patriotism/nationalist paganismPhil L.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-80515820460158278782012-09-19T13:57:33.227-06:002012-09-19T13:57:33.227-06:00The narrative thread in my article got tangled up ...The narrative thread in my article got tangled up quite a bit -- which is entirely my fault, of course. Bob is a fictional character; Rev. Waldron is not. Bob embraced the warfare state, but got in trouble because he insisted on public (albeit non-exclusive) celebration of Christmas as a religious holiday. William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-33499750861240779902012-09-19T12:31:28.117-06:002012-09-19T12:31:28.117-06:00I am very confused by even the re-edited article. ...I am very confused by even the re-edited article. Did Bob confront the warfare state or not? At first he does, then he didn't -- I thought you were describing a real character whose motives were distorted by the film about him. Then later he's a completely fictional character.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-9017343023810383572012-09-19T00:45:13.755-06:002012-09-19T00:45:13.755-06:00Great article Will. I grew up in a non-religious ...Great article Will. I grew up in a non-religious environment and was exposed to, and learned to despise, the kind of Christians in the movie you write about. If it wasn't for your thoughtful writing I probably would still have deep feelings of animosity to what I considered another despicable religion in a world full of them. <br /><br />But now I find myself in awe of the stories and narratives in the bible and christian theology that I hardly knew existed like the wonderful actions of the venerable Rev. Waldron. I am still not a follower of any religion though I'm not prone to follow much but my own conscience and the pursuit of good will, peace and love; but when I hear a great story of a heroic figure like the reverend doing what is right in the face of such tyranny I find myself deeply respecting the moral nature of the religion he believed. Ironically, I can't help but think that I may be more christian, in the vein of Rev. Waldron, than the great number of fools out there saying they are.<br /><br />To me one of the most interesting things about the abrahamic faiths is the unknowable nature of god except for what you can surmise through your individual soul and coupled with the humility of never admitting certainty as to the truth of god.<br /><br />I can't see how these people can honestly behave the way they do towards the military without considering the messiah's own travails with the central authority in Rome. Waldron was certainly acting out in a christ-like fashion. Cajoling your children into joining the the legion because the state embodies the goodness of your religion seems the opposite.<br /><br />Anyway, you clearly work hard on your blog entries and I always enjoy reading them and learning from them so I thought I would take the time to thank you. Keep up the good work.evinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-7773742009040815022012-09-18T23:35:45.771-06:002012-09-18T23:35:45.771-06:00Scribner's "Commentator" is an old m...Scribner's "Commentator" is an old magazine. I only have a couple, Nov 1941, I Made War Propaganda, by Lillian Gish.<br /><br />Thanks for the article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-21899001923359859652012-09-18T09:46:48.463-06:002012-09-18T09:46:48.463-06:00I almost choked on the names alone. Revere? Chri...I almost choked on the names alone. Revere? Christian?... Oh puhleeze! It's so over the top that it makes me want to scream, "Enough already"! And I'm glad that I learned something new about Rev. Waldron. Seems someone back then actually knew what he was talking about and only served to reinforce Mark Twain and his lament through the "War Prayer".MoTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-54136865611916128802012-09-18T05:01:49.272-06:002012-09-18T05:01:49.272-06:00as for the "puritanical left,"
it now go...as for the "puritanical left,"<br />it now goes by the moniker<br />"evangelical right."<br /><br />The witch hunt continues . . .willbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-70385301708249927052012-09-18T04:54:35.274-06:002012-09-18T04:54:35.274-06:00U.S. "Churches" have sold the truth for ...U.S. "Churches" have sold the truth for an IRS tax exemption.<br />They'll tell you that Jesus died for your sins and then tell<br /><b>you</b> to die for your country's sins.<br /><br />As for Christmas, it has been a state feast from the get go:<br /><br />Revelation 11:10<br />And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, <br />and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because <br />these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.willbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-61817309519649312032012-09-17T22:24:39.781-06:002012-09-17T22:24:39.781-06:00James -- I did transpose Bob and Tom's name in...James -- I did transpose Bob and Tom's name in several places, and I've re-edited the piece. Thanks for your help.<br /><br />JeffS -- I'm hardly the first to use the phrase "puritanical left." I seem to recall that my first encounter with the expression was in an essay by Sidney Hook, whose worldview can hardly be considered religious, at least in a conventional sense. <br /><br />One of the essays to which I link points out that the original Puritans adamantly opposed the celebration of Christmas, and did what they could to suppress public displays of Christmas symbols. I've met self-described civil libertarians who display similar zeal in pursuit of very similar objectives.<br /><br /><br /><br />William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-7622067615933217512012-09-17T22:05:57.828-06:002012-09-17T22:05:57.828-06:00Hi, William N. Grigg. I give extensive analysis of...Hi, William N. Grigg. I give extensive analysis of state-worship by ersatz Christianity in pp. 48-49 (with a footnote that continues to p. 50) of Sec. 7.4.3: "Ha'Mashiach" and especially Sec. 8.1.2: "Life with God" of my following article on physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology:<br /><br />James Redford, "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), Sept. 10, 2012 (orig. pub. Dec. 19, 2011), 186 pp., <a href="http://ssrn.com/abstract=1974708" rel="nofollow">http://ssrn.com/abstract=1974708</a> .<br /><br />By the way, Mr. Grigg, your description of the characters in the movie Last Ounce of Courage seems to be mixed up in certain parts. Is Tom the one who died in war? Is Kari Revere Tom's wife and Christian their son, with Bob being Christian's grandfather and Tom's father? You seem to have substituted the name Tom in place of Bob in certain passages.James Redfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11284915453745539533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-24590405798848104082012-09-17T20:08:40.355-06:002012-09-17T20:08:40.355-06:00The spread of Christianity is due, almost exclusiv...The spread of Christianity is due, almost exclusively, to the warfare state. <br /><br /><br />I'm surprised to see you use the phrase "puritanical left". I'm really having a hard time reconciling its use by someone who comes across as intelligent and rational. I can only conclude that a discussion of religion changes everything. JeffShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02222081901980914330noreply@blogger.com