tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post1563872655763733884..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: Ending Property Rights: What "Add the Words" Really Means William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-53430530297918820762014-06-02T23:51:02.085-06:002014-06-02T23:51:02.085-06:00Thank you for your insightful comments. This is d...Thank you for your insightful comments. This is definitely history in the making for our time.<br /><br />The long list of invasive measures pushed by the gay lobby and embraced by politicians are fast encroaching our freedoms. <br /><br />Further sign our world is ripening in inequity = when the majority of the people choose wickedness over good then we know we are ripe.<br /><br />Get your life right with God and buy your canned wheat - 360 lbs per person = a year supply plus 25# beans. Canned dry beans, canned whole wheat (not flour).<br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-56479517279592658502014-06-02T19:32:47.418-06:002014-06-02T19:32:47.418-06:00I am bisexual, I am pro gay marriage, I am very in...I am bisexual, I am pro gay marriage, I am very involved in the fight (and yes it IS a fight) for sovereignty for ALL. if these events occured as described in this article I am offended at the behaviors of the people who brought about this lawsuit against the wedding photographer. She shouidve just ignored the email, sadly. Even sadder is the fact that she was punished for her choice to not accommodate services for same sex weddings. Take your business elsewhere! Why bother giving them the time of day and there are plenty of gay friendly and gay owned businesses which will thrive if patronized! People have a right to be jerks provided they aren't violent or oppressive or cause harm. Having your feelings hurt in such a POLITE and acceptable way as far as I'm concerned is not damage. I'm offended that the photographer had to pay $7000 for this! Gay people have indeed suffered from stigmatization marginalization, they have been denied liberty on many fronts and worse- they've been categorized as mentally Ill (the DSM was updated to reflect that gay is not a mental illness) and they've been the victims of hate crimes including death. As a demographic they have indeed needed protection! And why shouldn't same sex couples be able to benefit the same as hetero couples in regard to tax breaks, inheritances, the right to be at your mates bedside at the hospital if they are sick and dying. How about fair housing? Employment? Lesbians and gays have had their children taken from them merely over their orientation where otherwise they had not shown themselves to be unfit parents. <br /><br />Yes, I'd say that some members of the LGBT community are a bit upset and out for blood. When you've grown up in a world that has sought to deny you at every turn, for reasons based in vastly religious ideologies, in a culture that hasn't thought twice about denying you your liberties merely based on your sexual orientation, what do you do? Lay down and take it- or start making waves and fighting back? <br /><br />I'm certain there are many amongst the LGBT community such as myself, who can't stand the government's behavior on just about anything, we are talking an extremely corrupt system. We don't want ANYONE'S liberties being infringed upon. We've experienced being disenfranchised and don't want to see this happening to ANYONE.<br /><br />I agree that situations like this are wrong. But are you also taking into consideration how the LGBT population has been consistently and vastly discriminated against in a multitude of ways? Do you blame them for fighting for their liberties which have been so often denied them? <br /><br />I feel that many don't understand the government or the workings of law well enough to understand all of the implications. I feel that after watching their peers commit suicide, watching their peers being denied access to their loved ones at hospitals, after being denied the liberties they see other people enjoying with impunity- those liberties which they have been denied based on religious ideologies they don't share, watching as other gays and lesbians have been assaulted and even murdered with no justice resulting- these are people who want TO LIVE AND BE WHO THEY WANT TO BE. perhaps had you walked a mile in their shoes you would understand. You talk as though these gays were just full of themselves as if they have no reason to be outraged. <br /><br />Where do you suggest they channel their feelings? What do you suggest they do to effect change for the better? Or should they just go away? <br /><br />How do you protect EVERYONE and honor EVERYONE? Or rather how does a so called government by the people LOL protect and honor all of its people- all of the diversity? <br /><br />That's the question I want an answer for. <br /><br />Frankly, I think religion and most ideologies need to go. But that's just me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-21993363095679606242014-04-28T06:29:31.713-06:002014-04-28T06:29:31.713-06:00Actually, I'm a very pleasant shade of brown -...Actually, I'm a very pleasant shade of brown -- and there are abundant rewards to be found in knowing that whatever minimal notoriety I enjoy is enough to provoke the hostility of cowardly, anonymous collectivist trolls. :-)<br /><br /><br />William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-53928098870892716942014-04-28T00:37:34.433-06:002014-04-28T00:37:34.433-06:00Billy, you're just a yellow journalist who isn...Billy, you're just a yellow journalist who isn't a good enough writer to get a real job. American patriots aren't even aware you exist.<br />Loooooooooooooooooosseeeeeeeerrrrrr!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-22712590634881707862014-03-28T13:43:08.389-06:002014-03-28T13:43:08.389-06:00Blogger Mark said...
"There is no such t... Blogger Mark said...<br /><br /> "There is no such thing as an absolute property right in American law. Where did that absurd idea come from? Property--personal or business--is subject to law. The Huguenins believe themselves above the rule of law and that their personal religious beliefs free them from any obligation to obey public laws that regulate business. They're going to find out the hard way that the law says otherwise. Maybe absolute rights based on personal beliefs are the order of the day in libertarian La-La land, but here in the real world the law is supreme."<br /><br /><br />If Law is Absolute then we need to prosecute the Gays for sodomy in all the States that sodomy is illegal also same applies to the gay's in the military were sodomy is illegal in all branches. You cannot regulate or make Laws on morality issues unless that moral issue is agreed upon by the masses, i.e. Murder, Rape..... Most of these comments are great the others are idiotic people with blinders on... I like to call you all sheeple. Go ahead and follow the flock to the wolf...morons. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-14310519165409952662014-03-19T10:12:42.787-06:002014-03-19T10:12:42.787-06:00So if gays have rights and private businesses cann...So if gays have rights and private businesses cannot refuse service to them - while apparently gay bars and hairdressers can refuse service based on beliefs - do the same leftists believe all businesses should be forced to serve gun owners? That no business can deny entry from someone with a conceal carry license? After all, even almost all of the gun banners claim they believe the 2ns amendment is an individual right out of political necessity. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-76353101379274576412014-03-16T14:41:58.610-06:002014-03-16T14:41:58.610-06:00... and people on the "wrong side of history&...... and people on the "wrong side of history" are just fodder for the guillotine, the gulag, or the gas chamber.<br /><br />There's nothing novel about the "modern morality" you describe: The same argument was offered even more forcefully in a 1920 editorial by Krasni Mech (The Red Sword), a publication of the Soviet Cheka secret police:<br /><br />"Our morality has no precedent, and our humanity is absolute, because it rests on a new ideal. Our aim is to destroy all forms of oppression and violence. To us, everything is permitted, for we are the first to raise the sword not to oppress races and reduce them to slavery, but to liberate humanity from its shackles .... Blood? Let blood flow like water . .. for only through the death of the old world can we liberate ourselves forever." <br />William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-87107093653603891362014-03-16T14:30:09.889-06:002014-03-16T14:30:09.889-06:00Yup. One is a homophobic bigot, the other was maki...Yup. One is a homophobic bigot, the other was making an important point about LGBT rights. The homophobe is on the wrong side of history, the other represents a modern morality.joshuaohahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02382334811745390530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-19040625998378681142014-03-16T11:38:17.026-06:002014-03-16T11:38:17.026-06:00Ms. Huguenin's mistake was made at the very be...Ms. Huguenin's mistake was made at the very beginning, when she replied to the email. That email said IF you will serve, we would appreciate prices...<br />All Huguenin had to do was delete the email without comment.<br />I understand the desire to acknowledge a person and thank an enquiry, but "we won't serve you" was a slap in the face to those she refused to serve. That hurts! No matter whether the language of it be polite or curses. THAT is why the lawsuit came about.<br />Had Huguenin simply deleted the mail, the ladies would have been looking elsewhere and found what they wanted without difficulty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-74352934937407884442014-03-15T19:01:15.471-06:002014-03-15T19:01:15.471-06:00The irony here is strong. Here we have an apparatu...The irony here is strong. Here we have an apparatus allegedly constructed to enhance tolerance, yet for it to operate it requires the supposed "victims" to act intolerantly!<br /><br />That is, Huguenin was being perfectly tolerant; in fact tolerance does not even require her to be polite to those she rejects, though she was. It only requires she not attack them. On the other hand, Willock, rather than being tolerant, actually was intolerant of Huguenin, in employing the state agency as her attack dog.<br /><br />As to rights, I don't believe in them. That's just a notion invented a couple of hundred years ago to enhance liberty, but since then appropriated by the state for its own purposes. There are no rights to this or that. There is only will. As Frederick Douglass said, "Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." Rights are simply irrelevant in this picture.PJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-28333394137225018972014-03-15T13:47:19.551-06:002014-03-15T13:47:19.551-06:00Will, love you man, hang in there.
I've donate...Will, love you man, hang in there.<br />I've donated before, but have been financially impoverished myself for much too long and am unable to help you in that regard for the time-being.<br /><br /><br />"All legitimate law is rooted in the principle of non-aggression. This doesn't limit property; it protects it."<br /><br />Great truth you've uttered there.<br /><br />Seems the State has usurped that true purpose of law and legally deformed it for it's own benefit.<br /><br />Will, there's a website I think you should peruse, if you haven't already - http://servantking.info/<br /><br />It's authored by a former attorney (simply identifies himself as Marcus) and I think you'll find it worth your time to check out. In particular, a couple video series he's put together called "Confusion" and "Unraveling".<br /><br />Like to hear your thoughts sometime, on his perspective.<br /><br />Please Carry On, Brother.Washington D.eath C.ultnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-68728626640194156152014-03-15T13:00:43.099-06:002014-03-15T13:00:43.099-06:00I just donated $20. I sure wish i could give more...I just donated $20. I sure wish i could give more, but I think if most of your readers gave 20 a month you would be in ok shape. Your work is easily worth 20 a month, and i hope others can contribute. Heck, this article was worth 20 by itself! <br /><br />I will be praying for you, and hope you are able to continue your one man war against the police state. It reminds me a lot of Ron Paul crying out in the wilderness by himself for decades about The Fed - the rest of the country will one day catch up to your position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-46752223007612883812014-03-15T01:59:31.381-06:002014-03-15T01:59:31.381-06:00Loved reading this article! Brilliant takedown of...Loved reading this article! Brilliant takedown of the blatant hypocrisy of how gays can refuse to serve people based on their political or moral views, yet non gays cannot escape the barrel of the government's implied gun. The point about Lincoln the tyrant is also true - though the leftists who worship Lincoln are always embarrassed and start making excuses when the facts about Lincoln wanting to kick out every black person, his support for an amendment to the constitution allowing slavery, his enforcing of the fugitive slave act even during the war, how the emancipation proclamation did not free a single slave bc it only applied to the areas not under Lincoln's control, and his many racist statements about the inferiority of the black race.<br /><br />I also really enjoyed seeing your takedown of Mark in the comments section! <br /><br />I will be donating tomorrow what i can, but wish it was more.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-31356551267921440192014-03-14T18:06:17.475-06:002014-03-14T18:06:17.475-06:00The forgoing comment makes perfect sense if one su...The forgoing comment makes <i>perfect</i> sense if one subscribes to the idea that government defines law, rather than being defined by it. On that construction, the "rule of law" is whatever government ordains, which is a roundabout way of endorsing Lenin's formula ("power without limit, resting directly on force"). <br /><br />Mark's comment is a direct transliteration of criticisms hurled at abolitionists in the 1850s who invoked the higher law -- that of self-ownership and non-aggression -- as they systematically undermined a measure called the "Fugitive Slave Law." That disreputable movement likewise invoked personal religious and ethical beliefs in defiance of their supposed "obligations" under what was called the law. <br /><br />The Fugitive Slave "Law," like the arrangement Mark is defending, was based on the false assumption that some people could claim a property right in the involuntary service of others. So Mark's perspective has a long pedigree, albeit a thoroughly disreputable one. <br /><br />All legitimate law is rooted in the principle of non-aggression. This doesn't limit property; it protects it.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-18188466738892906142014-03-14T17:57:25.533-06:002014-03-14T17:57:25.533-06:00There is no such thing as an absolute property rig...There is no such thing as an absolute property right in American law. Where did that absurd idea come from? Property--personal or business--is subject to law. The Huguenins believe themselves above the rule of law and that their personal religious beliefs free them from any obligation to obey public laws that regulate business. They're going to find out the hard way that the law says otherwise. Maybe absolute rights based on personal beliefs are the order of the day in libertarian La-La land, but here in the real world the law is supreme.Markhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10102866718304644057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-6639735751046864822014-03-14T14:42:18.084-06:002014-03-14T14:42:18.084-06:00The next logical step here, of course is to stop r...The next logical step here, of course is to stop restricting the abridgement of choice to businesses.<br /><br />We should force consumers to choose between business owned by the protected ones. Receipts could be color coded: Black, yellow, white, lavender etc and people would have to prove that they spent their money at establishments in proportion to the representation of protected class business owners in the community.<br /><br />I envision Annual spending report enforced by the IRSBill Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-59164659202735566972014-03-14T10:26:53.478-06:002014-03-14T10:26:53.478-06:00Absolutely brilliant, Mr Grigg!
I liked this best...Absolutely brilliant, Mr Grigg!<br /><br />I liked this best: <br /><br />"Those who support coercive fine-tuning of social and commercial arrangements assume that rights can be “balanced” by bureaucrats blessed with infinite insight and bottomless wisdom. But the only way rights can actually be balanced is to recognize, and follow, three principles: 1) All rights are property rights; 2) property rights are absolute; and 3) aggression is always morally wrong and cannot be permitted."Dean Strikerhttp://no-ruler.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-61169271382650906382014-03-14T04:26:01.070-06:002014-03-14T04:26:01.070-06:00I suspect that once the new privileges are well pr...I suspect that once the new privileges are well promulgated, there will be more pay in advance deals, with poor quality service and product the result. <br /><br />There are still ways to say no, while saying yes. In economic terms, it is called "the slave's secret". It is why free labor is always an economic threat to involuntary servitude. Incentives matter.<br /><br />Personally, I wouldn't want a cake from a baker who didn't like me. But now the baker won't tell me that he doesn't like me. So, "let them eat cake".John F.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-24550302854367201252014-03-13T15:09:35.409-06:002014-03-13T15:09:35.409-06:00This is a country at war against it's citizens...This is a country at war against it's citizens. And the rule of law is dead so we have no obligation any longer to obey the law or to represent ourselves honestly to the system. People need to use the tools of our oppressors against our oppressors. Just as a POW has no obligation to tell his captors the truth, our jail keepers don't deserve our respect or our honesty. We can no longer afford to give strangers the benefit of the doubt: they need to earn our trust. Every stranger is now a potential enemy. Otherwise, those without honor will use the truth against us. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-47701565132627457662014-03-13T14:54:40.060-06:002014-03-13T14:54:40.060-06:00Mr Grigg, Salon might be told to imagine a GAY re...Mr Grigg, Salon might be told to imagine a GAY restaurant owner trying to refuse any or all members of the Fred Phelps family or the members of their "church" !<br /><br />I suppose comments are still open on their article.<br /><br />Do you know how "Huguenin" is pronounced? <br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-1650351839333290572014-03-13T14:43:01.617-06:002014-03-13T14:43:01.617-06:00LAVA, the false dichotomy you identify was imposed...LAVA, the false dichotomy you identify was imposed on this controversy by the anti-discrimination police in New Mexico (and elsewhere). I suspect, but can't prove, that if Elane's Photography had been owned and operated by a non-Christian entrepreneur who refused to acknowledge same-sex marriage, the New Mexico "human rights" apparat wouldn't have pursued this case so zealously -- but that hypothetical question isn't germane to the property rights question. <br /><br />I'm not dealing with matters of identity and labels, or in personal opinions regarding marriage, but rather in questions of property rights. <br /><br />And as a believer who understands that there has only been One exception to the category "sinner," I would never define fellowship to exclude anybody who is earnestly seeking redemption. William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-71565530412234226502014-03-13T14:34:43.949-06:002014-03-13T14:34:43.949-06:00Mr Grigg, do you have to compare "gay" t...Mr Grigg, do you have to compare "gay" to "Christian"? A non-Christian, ie Buddhist or atheist photographer may believe in heterosexual marriage. A gay can also be Christian.<br /><br />~~<br />LAVA<br />~~Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com