tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post1483863439445514168..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: Support Your Local Rape GangWilliam N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-67736759055541609532013-07-01T13:17:45.536-06:002013-07-01T13:17:45.536-06:00Funny reading this article of a life time friend o...Funny reading this article of a life time friend of mine and the ridiculous issues that has landed himself 14 years in prison that he will never get back. I see all this hoopla of someone writing about an issue that they obviously don't have all the proper information! What about the prior trials that had the evidence and testimony that proved Shawn Freeman's innocence! This man gets indicted because the federal government was not satisfied with the prior outcomes of previous trials and the already convicted people change prior testimony to get lesser sentences. Funny how the Freedom of Speech takes a whole different role when it comes to convicting an innocent man. If your going to write/report get all the information before you go slandering someones name that you have never met. God Speed and Always Semper FI John Robbinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12549068841345865391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-42529220779968738832009-02-23T22:48:00.000-07:002009-02-23T22:48:00.000-07:00I agree with your stand on this; however, if you a...I agree with your stand on this; however, if you are going to post information, you should post complete, accurate information. Although some details may seem minor, to others, they are not so small. The guards were Deputy JAILERS employed by the Grant County Jailer NOT the Grant County Sheriffs Office. I am sure the members of the Grant County Sheriff's Office would appreciate the distinction. No, they are not the same. In Kentucky the Jailer and Sheriff are two different elected positions, with the Jailer running the jails/detention centers. Also, the charges against the young man were not minor offenses. I wouldn't call eluding a police officer among his other charges "minor." This in no way defends what the deputies did. However, you should acknowledge the fact that Mr. Sydnor did confess his guilt and ask for forgiveness. He did this not only to the family of the victim but to God. He did, as his minister indicated to the court of his salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ. He was human, he erred and fell VERY short of the glory of God. BUT should he be earnest in his confession (not for us to judge) then he IS forgiven by the Holy Father. I am sure you can understand that! However, you failed to get the WHOLE story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-29153699399209110642008-08-21T01:01:00.000-06:002008-08-21T01:01:00.000-06:00This story is sickening.Not least because it is so...This story is sickening.<BR/><BR/>Not least because it is so common.<BR/><BR/>In the comments I read about constitutionalism and drunk driving. It's also sickening that nobody seems to deal with the actual offense. Rape.<BR/><BR/>I understand that in generations past, prison rape was not widely discussed, because it was considered too depraved for media coverage or general conversation, and the victims just kept it to themselves.<BR/><BR/>You would think that in our more "enlightened" era, with all manner of depravity on the airwaves, it would be possible to finally deal openly with this disgusting phenomenon.<BR/><BR/>But no, instead, it is now a source of entertainment: "Hilarious" shower scenes in jail-house movies. rappers actually boasting about how they will shove their penises up other men's rectums, a standby for unimaginative comedians to get a cheap laugh.<BR/><BR/>Why is it not taken seriously or dealt with properly?<BR/><BR/>I would say that's because any serious attempt to do so would be shouted down by "gay rights groups" complaining about "homophobia".brianakirahttp://brianakira.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-30393089543801187502008-08-20T08:26:00.000-06:002008-08-20T08:26:00.000-06:00Dear Mr. Griggs,What do you think? Do you think t...Dear Mr. Griggs,<BR/><BR/>What do you think? Do you think the founding fathers of this country knew something, when they drafted the United States Constitution and Declaration of Independence? Do you think they were aware of the potential for misuse and abuse of power and authority, when they drafted these documents to protect individual rights and freedoms, and curtain government power and authority? Now that my children are all grown up and have families of their own, they occasionally come and tell me, "You know what you said about, when I'm a parent, I will understand, well I get it now... do you think you and your readers get it now? Do you think you and your readers now come to understand the reasons why individual rights and freedoms are so prominently upheld in the Constitution, while government power and authority is so limited...? Do you get it now...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-4039368921455104902008-08-18T23:03:00.000-06:002008-08-18T23:03:00.000-06:00The current adoption of BAC as an indication of gu...The current adoption of BAC as an indication of guilt is the direct result of federal bribery to institute law outside of the federal jurisdiction. Use the threat of loss of federal highway dollars unless the desired policy is adopted. And the application of such behavior is far broader than highway funding.<BR/><BR/>State gov'ts have become addicted to the federal teat that they suckle from continuously. State/federal, there has become no discernible difference.<BR/><BR/>Always with gov't, if you want an answer, follow the money . . .<BR/><BR/>Sic Semper TyrannisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-14452274466555950752008-08-15T12:18:00.000-06:002008-08-15T12:18:00.000-06:00A brief programming note:I don't like to reject co...A brief programming note:<BR/><BR/>I don't like to reject contributions to the comment thread unless they're 1) spam, or 2) profane (meaning, specifically, abusive of the Name of the Deity). Where possible, I prefer to let the discussion wander as far afield of the post as contributors want to take it.<BR/><BR/>That being said, I think some minimal exercise of editorial discretion is defensible to prevent threads from being hijacked by people who are dying to discuss perfectly fascinating topics that have no plausible connection to the original topic. <BR/><BR/>I permitted the post above (after rejecting a couple of others fro the same contributor) because it offers a link to a very interesting discussion of the 17th Century English Levellers. Those who wish to be edified about that topic -- which, as far as I can tell, has NOTHING to do with the Grant County Jail Rape Atrocity -- should check it out. <BR/><BR/>In similar fashion, I rejected a comment recently that contained a lengthy essay on the purported role of "The Jews" in the African slave trade. That may be a fascinating and provocative subject, but it had nothing at all to do with the original post.<BR/><BR/>I genuinely appreciate the time anyone takes to read what I write and comment about it. Nearly everybody makes an effort to be relevant, and I appreciate that, as well. Those who don't shouldn't be surprised if, on occasion, some of what they write ends up being treated like spam.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-77078807740578437162008-08-15T11:39:00.000-06:002008-08-15T11:39:00.000-06:00Land and FreedomXx<A HREF="http://www.bilderberg.org/land" REL="nofollow">Land and Freedom</A><BR/><BR/>XxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-64173945190611896642008-08-15T10:58:00.000-06:002008-08-15T10:58:00.000-06:00PS Author of that last missive, JA!PS Author of that last missive, JA!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-57512080230647497072008-08-15T05:38:00.000-06:002008-08-15T05:38:00.000-06:00Is there a way you can flag the posts of "Mark the...Is there a way you can flag the posts of "Mark the Muslim/Peas Boy/Anon/happy face/whatever" so time doesn't have to be wasted reading his stuff? I hate to sound testy but life is short. Just some little symbol so we know he's back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-15426483781194371962008-08-14T17:00:00.000-06:002008-08-14T17:00:00.000-06:00oopsoopsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-51463032738376217132008-08-14T16:56:00.000-06:002008-08-14T16:56:00.000-06:00Sickening. Too bad that happened in Kentucky. I'm ...Sickening. Too bad that happened in Kentucky. I'm new to this place and have always found Kentuckians to be unexpectedly nice people. But then again, maybe law enforcers aren't really people.<BR/><BR/>DaveDavehttp://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-46680279150213265462008-08-14T15:47:00.000-06:002008-08-14T15:47:00.000-06:00Isn't it O'Brien, or is there another joke at work...<I>Isn't it O'Brien, or is there another joke at work here?</I><BR/><BR/>Thank you, sir, for pointing out the misspelling of my name. I have instructed the Ministry of Truth to make all necessary corrections.<BR/><BR/>Also, the US has always been at war with Russia.O'Briennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-83200014455405675322008-08-14T14:57:00.000-06:002008-08-14T14:57:00.000-06:00Sorry to be picayune. Isn't it O'Brien, or is the...Sorry to be picayune. Isn't it O'Brien, or is there another joke at work here?<BR/><BR/>If Mark keeps commenting here he's eventually going to straighten us all out.<BR/><BR/>R CozineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-68348716216966188792008-08-14T14:48:00.000-06:002008-08-14T14:48:00.000-06:00anon @ 1652,"all your learning has made you mad!"n...anon @ 1652,<BR/><BR/>"all your learning has made you mad!"<BR/><BR/>now...who said that and to whom? :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/>...and i think you missed my point about heaven being a dictatorship. let me explain. God is in charge of heaven. it truly is a dictatorship. however, it's a utopia. i was hoping you'd pick up on the irony.<BR/><BR/>rickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-84010314141315555342008-08-14T14:10:00.000-06:002008-08-14T14:10:00.000-06:00OUR RESPONSIBILITY IN REFORMING SOCIETYDear Brothe...OUR RESPONSIBILITY IN REFORMING SOCIETY<BR/><BR/>Dear Brothers & Sisters,<BR/><BR/>It Is Not Enough To Be Good; One Must Also Show The<BR/>Right Path To Others Who Might Otherwise Do Evil.<BR/><BR/>God Almighty brought us into existence, endowed us<BR/>with millions of blessings, granted us uncountable<BR/>sorts of eatables, provided us modes of relief,<BR/>respite and adornment so that we could live a<BR/>comfortable life. As there is no order greater than<BR/>that of God, therefore, we should get a complete<BR/>knowledge of His directives and spend our life<BR/>according to His will, and should not follow the path<BR/>forbidden by Him. And we should be grateful to Him<BR/>every moment for the blessings He has bestowed on us.<BR/><BR/>You know that to eliminate all kinds of vices from<BR/>the world and to promote good is the responsibility<BR/>of every person. Everyone amongst us is a caretaker<BR/>and is responsible for his subordinates on the Day<BR/>of Judgment. Rulers will be answerable for the<BR/>citizens of their state, every family head will be<BR/>accountable for the members of his family and will<BR/>be asked as to what he did for their reformation,<BR/>education and better life. He will be asked as to<BR/>whether he forbid them from adopting the bad ways,<BR/>and helped them in leading a pious life or not.<BR/><BR/>The world history reveals that until the people<BR/>performed the task of commanding the others to do<BR/>good and barring them from doing evil, the pious<BR/>people remained dominant in those societies and there<BR/>was peace and tranquility and satanic forces were<BR/>subdued. But, when this collective responsibility was<BR/>designated only to clerics, and the common people<BR/>ignored this task, in spite of the efforts of the<BR/>clerics, waywardness spread quickly. A wave of<BR/>offenses, terrorism, tyranny, evils, sins, ignorance<BR/>and anarchy engulfed almost every segment of life.<BR/>Disorder, commotion and chaos were on the rise in the<BR/>world society, wrecking the peace of all mankind.<BR/><BR/>The world is facing disaster upon disaster every day<BR/>and people are expecting a major catastrophe. The<BR/>deeds that have been forbidden by God are being<BR/>committed openly. The evils are increasing, while the<BR/>virtues are fading out gradually. Tyranny, oppression<BR/>and carnage are going on, liars and cheats are<BR/>overcoming. Terrorism, bribery, corruption, evil,<BR/>nudity, vulgarity and wickedness have assaulted the<BR/>world. It seems we have reached inferno before the<BR/>Last Day. History tells us that such a situation<BR/>arises when people are being cursed by God.<BR/><BR/>It is feared that members of the previous generations<BR/>will be accountable for their individual deeds on the<BR/>Day of Judgment, but present generation will be<BR/>thrown as a whole into hell after a collective<BR/>prosecution, because the nobles of this generation<BR/>remained as silent spectators instead of restraining<BR/>the Wrongdoers, Terrorists and Separatists from<BR/>committing, cruelty, sins and misdeeds.<BR/><BR/>The Divine punishment to an ancient civilization<BR/>seconds this fear. There were three groups during<BR/>that period. One was of knaves, the second was of the<BR/>people who did good deeds but did not halt the<BR/>disobedient from transgression. The third group was<BR/>of the people who followed the Divine doctrines as<BR/>well as restrained others from disobeying them. When<BR/>God cursed the nation, the people exempted from this<BR/>torment were those who had been observing the limits<BR/>fixed by their Master and were stopping others from<BR/>wrongdoing as well.<BR/><BR/>There is another but similar happening. The residents<BR/>of a town had been engulfed by an ocean of sins.<BR/>However, there was a noble man who was always busy in<BR/>worshipping God, but he did not bother about<BR/>persuading others to give up their bad ways. When God<BR/>ordered the angels to destroy the town, He said:<BR/>" Overturn the town on the person who was anxious to<BR/>save himself from the Divine Punishment, but was not<BR/>endeavoring to save others from it".<BR/><BR/>I advise the virtuous people of the world that they<BR/>should not only depend upon their prayers to save<BR/>themselves from the Divine Punishment; rather they<BR/>should lead the Evil Doers and followers of Satan who<BR/>have gone astray, to the right path. They should<BR/>undertake this task against Evil Doers with full<BR/>determination. Only then will their virtues and<BR/>prayers save them from the Divine Punishment.<BR/><BR/>S.A.Rehman<BR/>Peace Activist<BR/>PAKISTANAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-51919897106293199192008-08-14T14:08:00.000-06:002008-08-14T14:08:00.000-06:00And when the Diggers failed, religious non-conform...And when the Diggers failed, religious non-conformism in revolutionary England went inward, for if we could not build God's Kingdom on earth, then surely we must strive to do it within our hearts. Hence the Quakers emphasis on inner stillness, Christ as the light within. <BR/><BR/>But still the messianic urge remained:<BR/><BR/>"We are not for names, nor men, nor titles of Government,<BR/>nor are we for this party nor against the other but we are<BR/>for justice and mercy and truth and peace and true freedom,<BR/>that these may be exalted in our nation, and that goodness,<BR/>righteousness, meekness, temperance, peace and unity with<BR/>God, and with one another, that these things may abound."<BR/>(Edward Burroughs, 1659 - from Quaker Faith and Practice)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-57361137826362485842008-08-14T09:04:00.000-06:002008-08-14T09:04:00.000-06:00Hear Hear MOT, voluntary society, what a relief in...Hear Hear MOT, voluntary society, what a relief indeed.<BR/><BR/>But also: Hear Heart Hearth Earth Art!<BR/><BR/>:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-16146395090982317332008-08-14T06:40:00.000-06:002008-08-14T06:40:00.000-06:00As with many other terms, I refuse to use the term...As with many other terms, I refuse to use the terms 'communism', 'democracy' (& consumer 'goods' for that matter) as they are commonly used (to refer to Soviet era central command economy, western neo-liberal capitalism and mindless, addictive corporate consumerist 'goods' and 'bads' respectively) when they actually mean something quite different. <BR/><BR/>Communism does NOT mean forcible distribution of wealth, that is just what it has come to mean (for now) because of the political class' ongoing abuses of power and language. Linguistic shock and awe.<BR/>Look at the Diggers of the English Revolutiun of 1649, they invented modern communism and were punished and persecuted as a result, betrayed by the very movement they fought for to overthrow the Catholic King on God's behalf.<BR/><BR/>'Communism' (as referred to in the De Toqueville quote in my last post) like democracy is the people's right to work together in every community to build an ever closer approximation to God's Kingdom on Earth. Look at the early Christians, how they lived.<BR/><BR/>That did not and does not mean living to the exclusion of private property, but it does mean finding a humane, fully inclusive balance: collective solidarity for all WITHOUT HIERARCHY!<BR/><BR/>"All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need"<BR/><BR/>:-) <BR/><BR/>All this comes down to the ongoing abuse of the power of words. Or, "thought control in [so-called] democratic societies" as Chomsky [with my addition] put it way back when. <BR/><BR/>But ever it were thus: have not empires of human power of whatever hue always spun, abused the truth of the founder's historical idealism? Movements get co-opted and used to Machiavellian ends..<BR/><BR/>Therefore:<BR/><BR/>"In order to maximise our own liberty, we must cease to put our trust in princes, and instead take charge of the public arena for ourselves, [constructing a genuine democracy] in which government is for the people as a result of being by the people" Professor Quentin Skinner <BR/><BR/>Ignorance is Strength. Work Makes You Free [in a concentration camp]. War is Peace. Democracy is not Democracy. Developed countries are lacking development. Most goods are bad. The west is not yet truly free. <BR/><BR/>Oh how the politicians love to abuse language. Similarly words have been abused and heretics burned by religious empires in the past, for disagreeing with rhetorical disingenuity. <BR/><BR/>See, for example <A HREF="http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article3261235.ece" REL="nofollow">Freeman's AD381</A><BR/><BR/>As, also with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which is in truth the Fiery Lamb who, even as we speak stares us all immediately, directly and infinitely in the face.<BR/><BR/>Also interesting is <A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/dec/17/comment.religion" REL="nofollow">RI Moore on Medieval Persecution</A><BR/><BR/>In the Dictionary of Love And War (LAW) IMO 'Anarchism' must mean self-organising, without government but WITH mutual support. <BR/><BR/>It is not any atomistic individualistic free market notion of the right as indicated by Mr Redford's work, all that does - on its own - is create more envy, haves and have nots, other forms of hierarchy. We have enough of that already, thankyou very much. <BR/><BR/>But it (anarchism) IS about civil government 'from below, inclusive of genuine humanity both left AND right. <BR/><BR/>IMO it absolutely should NOT be limited to a capitalist model without including voluntary, grassroots mutual support as a matter of course. Look at how the early Christian's lived. From each according to capacity (business or otherwise) and to each according to need. <BR/><BR/>And for all Marx's faults and the misinterpretations of his attempt to influence the world for the good, embodied in that simple statement is the whole of religion.<BR/><BR/>= anarchitecture!<BR/><BR/>And dear Bob, to go back to the power of words, I think that 'civil government' which you propose, much like 'civil society' sounds like a jolly good thing. As Gandhi once quipped when asked what he thought of 'western civillisation', if only we had a truly civil government. With civility by civilians for a true, and genuinely democractic civilisation<BR/><BR/>Love<BR/>The Real CIA<BR/>Cosmic Indigenous Anarchist<BR/><BR/>;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-31577161108012490982008-08-14T04:10:00.000-06:002008-08-14T04:10:00.000-06:00Charity is voluntary. Being voluntary it is also ...Charity is voluntary. Being voluntary it is also peaceful and exactly how things were meant to be. When things become mandatory, which is a consistent failing in evil men, then it is enforced through violence. Voluntary society would be such a relief.MoThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13996714804361467430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-37891900038840491942008-08-13T23:47:00.000-06:002008-08-13T23:47:00.000-06:00For those who did not get my sense of humor (thank...For those who did not get my sense of humor (thankfully Mr. Grigg instantly got it), please read the book written by George Orwell entitled <I>Nineteen Eighty-Four</I>.O'Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-12575986245556243732008-08-13T22:11:00.000-06:002008-08-13T22:11:00.000-06:00Acts 2 and 4 are descriptive accounts of the chari...Acts 2 and 4 are descriptive accounts of the charity of believers in Christ and are not necessarily prescriptive for civil government.Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-72772229178386103292008-08-13T21:51:00.000-06:002008-08-13T21:51:00.000-06:00Always remember Ignorance is Strength.Ah, so THAT'...<I>Always remember </I><B><I>Ignorance is Strength.</I></B><BR/><BR/>Ah, so THAT'S why Amerika is the strongest nation on earth...liberranterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-6383140297026251262008-08-13T21:47:00.000-06:002008-08-13T21:47:00.000-06:00Jesus is a communist and you know it. Acts 2:44-45...<I>Jesus is a communist and you know it. Acts 2:44-45</I><BR/><BR/>When did Jesus either command or endorse the forcible redistribution of wealth, rather than denouncing the cardinal sin (covetousness) that inspires such wholesale theft?<BR/><BR/><I>"And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me;<BR/><BR/>And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?<BR/><BR/>And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.</I><BR/><BR/>Luke 12:13-15William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-71700267850772384012008-08-13T21:39:00.000-06:002008-08-13T21:39:00.000-06:00Anonymous at 4:52 PM, you wrote "And about that an...Anonymous at 4:52 PM, you wrote "And about that anarcho capitalist Jesus b*s. Jesus is a communist and you know it. Acts 2:44-45."<BR/><BR/>For the refutation of that statement, see:<BR/><BR/>"Jesus Is an Anarchist," James Redford, revised and expanded edition, June 1, 2006 (first published on December 19, 2001) <A HREF="http://praxeology.net/anarchist-jesus.pdf" REL="nofollow">http://praxeology.net/anarchist-jesus.pdf</A><BR/><A HREF="http://geocities.com/jrredford/anarchist-jesus.html" REL="nofollow">http://geocities.com/jrredford/anarchist-jesus.html</A>James Redfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11284915453745539533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-49519976818895135042008-08-13T17:52:00.000-06:002008-08-13T17:52:00.000-06:00Rick Thanks for the response, and to the other gen...Rick <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the response, and to the other gentlemen for his many quotes. <BR/><BR/>However, I do think that we are talking at cross purposes here. <BR/><BR/>Personally, I do not see the examples you give as examples of true democracy. And I do not think true democracy is beyond the wit of humanity. <BR/><BR/>Democracy works very well indeed at the small scale of maximum 500-1000 people. It is the non-hierarchical system of governance par excellence. "The power of the free people resides in the commune" [Democracy in America, De Tocqueville] <BR/><BR/>All our problems come from the existence of closed power hierarchies. Inevitably, without appropriate, and suitably radical checks these naturally accumulate more and more power to the centre as time passes until all is lost to the fascist state.<BR/><BR/>By radical checks I mean, power is dispersed, sourced at the decentralised level of the human scale, and all topics can be debated and decisions made at this level, with full delegate system rights to work with the larger regions of constituency above. There are no short cuts to building a just civilisation and by just I mean laws made with the active consent nay PARTICIPATION of the PEOPLE. <BR/><BR/>In our constitution fora of 2006, we debated what a 21st Century Constitution would look like, drawing on all the experiences and historical learning we had at our disposal, including our view of the now-failed but valiant in its time US Constitition. One thing we were firm on was the need for a 'sunset clause', basically this would mean that every 15 years or so the Constitution would lapse unless the whole people took time out of their schedule (some kind of jubilee I suppose) and got together to deliberate the constitution throughout society and work out what parts of it worked and what not before giving it the go ahead for the following 15 years. <BR/><BR/>This would force the populace to stay actively engaged and vigilant. A positive republican democracy, "if you can keep it.."<BR/><BR/>Slavey Jefferson said there should be some form of revolution in every generation. Hence the right to raise a militia? Better IMO, a natural jubilee clause. The right to call jubilee on parts of the constitution that aren't working, a clean slate <BR/><BR/>All the problematic examples you describe are problems of tyranny. Worse, tyranny dressed up as democracy due to the sleeping public's acceptance of such patently false ideas as that which says democracy can ever work in the context of top down government, or with a global 'mass' society without the ultimate check of executive governmental structures at the grassroots, commune level of the human scale. The fallacy of so called 'representative' democracy. <BR/><BR/>And please don't quote me any Roman examples - republican or otherwise - as good models without serious provisos to explain what on earth you mean. And the same goes for the Founding Fathers. Stop lionising slave owners, colonialist, indigenous people bashers without proviso. These men all just happened to be on the 'right' side of history 'then'. Then is not now. Picasso was a great artist, that doesn't make him a great person. Churchill was a racist bigot who invented 'gassing the Kurds' <BR/> <BR/>Athens could be a better model than Rome, its scale and insistence on all citizens taking part (and being paid to do so) in daily fora deliberations is closer to the mark. But of course citizenry was restricted by gender, race and slaveship. Take the lesson where it applies, and exclude the nasty stiff but don't romantise (sic)<BR/><BR/>The positive repubican democratic model makes the case for human liberty through true democracy embodied in a small state in which everyone is able to participate fully in the framing of laws that effect them. If you own a law, you will look after it. And if you understand the purpose and reason behind a law, you can own it. In such a system, if you can't understand a law, either you haven't take part in the process of framing it (your mistake, and you should find out more and if you still don't like it, change it through same easy to access, open channels) or those that framed it have abused their power by allowing a law to take affect without all citizens having recognised its worth. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately we have bred a race of passive consumerist drones who have been actively dissuaded from getting directly involved in law making, but this cannot stand or western civ will fall.<BR/><BR/>If only you'd had that sunset clause my friend Anne dreamt up! <BR/><BR/>One might read David Held's 'Models of Democracy' in particular the chapter on the 'positive republican model' for a more erudite treatment of this important subject. <BR/><BR/>Life, Liberty and the Cultivation of Wisdom would have got you a lot further. Seeking happiness in this world is a will o the wisp. Hence the need for therapy throughout the western world. Founding Fathers, western 'enlightenment' my arse..<BR/><BR/>And about that anarcho capitalist Jesus b*s. Jesus is a communist and you know it. Acts 2:44-45Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com